Abortion [MATURE CONTENT]

[Darkstar]

Mar 7, 2011 18:32:59 GMT -6 @perceus500 said:

Mar 7, 2011 18:27:57 GMT -6 Sparrowfeather said:

Learn your facts.

UI must plead both you and Darkstar to please, please, please stay out of my threads if you don't have a positive opinion on the subject. ;

Some things, such as this subject, do not have a positive side. Do you intend for me to lie, or add to the debate?

Mar 7, 2011 18:35:18 GMT -6 Twistedfate said:

I argree with Afterlife. This is a wrong thing to do. If you don't want a baby, Dont do you-know-what or use birth control.

Abortions are birth control. They are just more expensive.

Mar 7, 2011 18:52:48 GMT -6 @sunkit1 said:

Mar 7, 2011 18:37:42 GMT -6 @splashfoot said:

...Rape. Thats the only reason I condone abortion. Otherwise use adoption, you dont want to see the child? Closed adoption.

if I got raped, I would still keep the baby and still love it no matter who it came from, I would never laet it go through that blood bath *wipes away tears*

Please don't say things until you actually endured them.

Mar 7, 2011 18:58:55 GMT -6 @sunkit1 said:

Yes, thank u sparkshine, People who give up or kill babys are sick Twisted people who have nothing better in there lives but kill, they do not deserve to be alive and should back to the bad place!!! Or I will force them there my self because killing people is wrong and sick, might as well call them the devil!!!!

Great, we now know that you hate many people in the Chinese culture WHO THROW THEIR BABIES IN THE GARBAGE BECAUSE IT'S FEMALE! (I'm not saying all Chinese people do this. >.>)

Mar 7, 2011 19:25:10 GMT -6 Twistedfate said:

I'm not trying to be rude sparrowfeather, but the staff (in general) is pretty ruse sometimes. Most of the time with some. This is one of those times I feel like the staff are acting like royalty (again, no avenge intended)

We act as royalty just as much as "regular" members do.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As Shadefrost said, rape victims should not have abortion closed off to them. I personally would rather not bring a life into the world from rape. I would look at that child and say, "I hate you, just as much as I hate the man." I know most of you think I have no soul for a statement as bold as that.

Sometimes, a baby could mean the death of both the mother and child. What do you gain from that? All your pro-lifers want the maximum life, right? So killing two lives is better than one?

Some people seriously shouldn't have a child due to complications. Even if the couple is using protection, condoms break. If the woman becomes pregnant, you get what I have already said above.

There are so many people who stick their nose is business that they really shouldn’t, and that’s most of your who aren’t even eligible to have/bare a child. This is really a woman’s argument. We have a decision on what to do with something we have. I personally don’t believe something is “alive” until it is “born”. Sure, fetus’ start breathing and having a heart beat early, but it isn’t really “alive”.

There are people who we kill who have lives. Terrorists, innocent people/guilty people (through death penalty). People who are alive kill themselves. The people who kill themselves had the option, but what about the innocent people who are convicted and get sentenced to the death penalty. These people have people who love them and people who they will leave behind. A fetus never saw the world, nor the people who are waiting for it, and therefore, doesn’t really have a feeling of love. Some people believe that a fetus can hear it’s mother speaking. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know. I am not sure how many of you have memories in the womb, but I don’t remember seeing or hearing until I was three.

There is also another argument that I want to make. Some of you guys say adoption is the way to go for unwanted children, but I question that. I myself am not adopted, but if I was, I would wonder who would want me, like a puppy in the pound. My parents abandoned me, so who would really want me? I know some of the adopted people out there aren’t like that, but many are. You can’t rule out that option. Adoption is not always the better way to go about things.

My final argument is the overpopulated earth. A baby has a big environmental impact on the planet for he/she will be on the world for an average of 80 years. This child will most likely also have a child. You say a baby can’t have that much impact, but really, they do. All of the diapers you use, the milk they drink, the cars he/she will eventually get, the list goes on! Everything has to be done. But this argument is something that would sprout into another debate, so I’m not getting too far into it.

By the way, Afterlife, did you read my PM?

[tigerstripe1001]

Mar 7, 2011 20:34:24 GMT -6 @sunkit1 said:

U only get one chance at life and when people get a abortion u ruined u kids life, insted of putting a kid in the orphange keep it

Seriously? No, sadly some teens have kids at a young age and can't afford to keep them. So no they aren't always able to keep them and it's out of their control ._.

And for orphans sadly some parents can't afford to care for their child and that's their only option.

[Sparkshine]

SUNKIT
READ THE POSTS
Are you Blind? The baby isn't a baby! It is a cluster of cells the size of a pea!
And I agree with Wildstar! Calling me and Sparrowfeather rude while you are d***ing all people that have abortions to death? Thats just crazy.
And, another thing. Wouldn't you rather not give birth to a child and send it off to an orphanage for adoption? Their lives would be MISERABLE! Living in a crummy orphanage and never getting adopted, never knowing their real parents and knowing that someone left them there. Do you know how terrible that would make the kid feel? No. You don't.
And for another thing, what if you CAN'T keep the kid? What if you have no money?
AND abortions are emotional things! You have no idea how trying it is and how emotionally challenging it is! And before you go and tell me everybody can have an opinion, yes they can, but I'm defending mine.

[Koisplash]

I agree with Wildstar, Sparkshine, Sparrowfeather, and a lot of other people.

Sunclaw: It. Is. A. Bunch. Of. Cells. QUIT IT! People have different opinions; and in my opinion, ABORTION IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD ONLY DO IF YOU BELIEVE IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. And would you really keep a baby that you got from being RAPED? Have you ever gotten raped? I certainly haven't, but why on earth would you want the flesh of your rapist inside you?

And also; abortion happens if the mother can't afford to have the baby, or was raped, or simply can't take care of the baby. Seriously. Think before you type.

A baby is a baby WHEN IT'S OUTSIDE THE MOTHER'S WOMB. Or when it's about ready to be born.

Abortion is not murder. And Afterlife, I like you, but honestly; can't you at least respect others' opinions without calling them such things? Making rants and debates like this leads to opinions. Not all of them will agree with you.

Maybe someone should lock this. This is getting out of hand ALREADY.

[MoonBeam]

She deleted her account....i guess this is why so much people leave...

[Venomclaw]

Ah abortion, that most amusing of debates.

My opinion is, if you can handle the emotions, physical stress and all that have it. If not, abort. Either way I won't hate someone, it is their choice.

I would list other alternatives, pros and cons, and the such but I expect it would not effect this debate and I do not feel like investing my time in a topic that people will never change their position on.

So in short, I am pro-choice but advocate having the baby if you are just going to abort so you do not have to go through birth.

Oh yes forgot to mention, before someone tells me to "Shut up" or that my "Opinions are false and to get off" let me state my favorite quote, which relates to this and is why I have not sworn eternal war on even the Westboro Baptists.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it." - The original, not singer, Voltaire.

Now that I stated that, cue the demagogues and people who think I am going to bother debating when I have no expectations to do much but cause further arguing and fighting.

[Moonkit]

I'm actually not sure why this thread was made. Abortion is a very touchy thing in general and tends to just start commotions, and if this thread goes how I think it will, then I'm positive that in the end it will be locked.

I'm not trying to single you out Afterlife, so please don't think that. I'm just voicing my opinion.

[splashfoot]

(Im just going to go clean up some of the boards...untill people calm down. This is making me want to cry...)

[Koisplash]

Same here, Splashfoot, same here.

Anyone care to lock this?

[Wildstar]

(Actually, I'd like to keep this unlocked for a while longer. Even though this is sure to turn into a full blown fight, I am addicted to debating, and I am very interested in this. This debate has shown me who are the levelheaded people on VWW, and who lets emotion alter their opinion. However, I'll lock it if it turns into a fight.)

@ Moonbeam
Lots of people leave this site because they cannot handle other peoples' opinions. Interesting. I thought people left because they either didn't understand it, got bored with it, grew up and moved on, or got cyber bullied here. But people who cannot handle a little debate really need to thicken their skin, because the controversy in the real world is much more intense right now.

@ Everyone else
Oh, how I'd love to respond to you all individually! But for the lack of time and energy, I am just going to make this general statement; thanks to all who said they agree with me, I respect everyone's opinion, I have 10x more respect for the people who stated their opinion in a calm manner and didn't insult prolifers or prochoicers, and...LET'S KEEP THIS DEBATE GOING, BUT LET'S ALSO AVOID NAME CALLING, DISRESPECT, ETC.

And now, for my actual input on this topic.

Well, first things first, I hate it when men try to debate this topic. Specifically, I can't stand men who are prolife and debate it. Now, keep in mind, I didn't say I can't stand men who are prolife!--I just said that I can't stand when they debate it, because they have no room to talk, as they are not women, and they'll NEVER in a MILLION years be placed in a situation where they would become impregnated and have to decide what to do. Because they won't ever have to make said decision, it's SO EASY to just say, "ABORTION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!", but how should they be able to say that when they cannot put themselves in the shows of women?! Sure, a lot of women are prolife, but they have the right to debate because they know what it's like, and they may be placed in the position. Also, most prolife women beleive that abortion should be legal for rapes...most prolife men think it should be flat out legal. Wanna know what *I* think? I think men should stay out of it. How would you like it if women were sitting here saying that the cure for prostate cancer should be illegal because it causes baldness, and women don't like bald women?! Sounds crazy, right? That's because it is.

Moving on.

I am prochoice.
I don't beleive that abortion is always the right decision, and there's nothing holy, humane, or kind about it, but I still beleive that women should have the choice. Yes, the "baby" is innocent, but it's still the woman's body. In some cases, women cannot bare children, so if they're going to die at birth, why should they risk it? And yes, you can die in an abortion, but the chances are less likley.

If you look at some data, there is a corralation with the crime rate and abortion rate, ever since it was made legal. Crime rate has been going down. Why, you ask? Think about it. A woman has a baby she doesn't want, right? She doesn't want to give it up for adoption, so she keeps it. But she hates it. So she abuses it, and makes it known that it was a mistake, or a product of rape. The child grows up depressed, feeling like it had no meaning, and turns into a criminal. Now, is that always the case? No. But here's WHY. So you have sex, get pregnant, and you choose between aborting it and keeping it. You keep it. Well GREAT, you kept it because you WANTED it. But why should women who do NOT want children be forced to stretch out their uterus, take months off of work, and feel guilty for putting it up for adoption, knowing it's going to feel meaningless in life? Seriously?

Also, aborted babies aren't really babies. Heck, if they're aborted early enough, then they're not even fetuses! They're potential life. And guess what? So are eggs. So when you don't match sperm to all of your millions of eggs, does that make you a murderer? A few weeks into the pregnancy, the "baby" has not heart, no brain, no nervous system, nothing. If you "kill" it, you're not a murderer, because it didn't have life.

And birth control?
Honey, you think it should be illegal? You're sick. I hope you never get voted into office. Birth control is so much more than preventing the birth of babies; some dermotologists perscribe it as acne treatment. Skyflight said it's used to treat her cysts. Birth control is also said to help women absorb knowledge more easily! And some women have to take birth control to control their periods; I know men can't wrap their heads around this, but periods do more than stain clothes, make women stink, give cramps, bloat, and make you sick; so women can die from excessive blood loss. If birth control becomes illegal, lives are lost, far more lives than those of babies...and these lives actually had a history and a future. How can you call yourself prolife when you wouldn't mind seeing Skyflight, and women just like her, die? You're cruel and uninformed.

I have more to say, but for now, that is all.

[Sparrowfeather]

Here's something I'd just to show you guys. If you google "When is the latest you can get an abortion," into google, like I did here, you will see that the answer is:

I found one website for a clinic that provides abortion up until 36 weeks, but only for maternal health or fetal abnormalities. I am pro-choice, but an abortion that late gives me the creeps.

Many states have restrictions after 12 weeks. I think abortion should be available without question or restriction in the first trimester. It seems a reasonable amount of time to decide if you wish to continue a pregnancy - after 12 weeks, it should only be allowed for maternal health or fetal abnormality.

Okay. But just wait. Let's move up and on from this information. Twelve weeks, let's google how big that is.

Amazing. So now I just took the direct length; 5 cm
And the direct weight; 0.5 oz

Five centimeters.
I don't think that's just yet a 'baby', things are just starting to be a baby. It's at 20 weeks where you get to see the gender, because the baby is too SMALL to be able to see.

I'd also like to defend birthcontrol.
They work by making your body think that you've already ovulated, therefore you don't make eggs. A baby is made by Sperm meeting egg. Is there's no egg, a baby can't be made. They don't 'kill' the baby, there's nothing that's there to KILL, because the sperm doesn't find anywhere to attach.

[perceus500]

Ahem. I have an announcement:
ZIP YOUR FREAKING LIPS!!!![/i][/u][/font][/size]
Seriously. It's in the rules; NO FLAMING!!! Now, I don't agree with anything you guys have said, nor do I have any religious point of view on any of this. The reason I wrote this whole thing was to do something. Why can't you idiots get a freaking life and leave. Me. Alone. I've seen some pretty gruesome things in my life. I've seen surgery up close and personal. I've witnessed rape, murder, and robbery. At the same time, as well. I've known people who have made several attempts on their own lives and the lives of others. I don't give a crap about your "opinions." And Wildstar, it's not my fault that I couldn't think of pros to it. I could think of one, but it was a con as well. So I didn't put it down. Now, abortion, great thing if you've been raped, or don't have the necessary funds to support a child. I don't expect you to agree with me (some of you just enjoy being douches to be douches). Actually, I prefer you to disagree with me. I love this chaos. I love it. I thrive off of it. I love arguments, and I love it when they get out of hand. I recommend not acting like two-year-olds fighting over a doll. Now, I don't want to hear any more on the subject AT ALL. Thank you. And if you think I'll take crap from anyone, staff or otherwise, you're wrong. I'm a passionate person when I can be, and a freaking lawyer when I need to be. Either way, we both lose. I lose because I get a warning. You guys lose because everyone who agrees with me--who dislikes it--has their opinion of you lowered. And even people who disagree with me have their opinion lowered. Especially staff. I CAN NOT stress this enough; be more mature. You're expected to deal with problems in a calm and cool manner. You don't like me? Ooooh. Big whoop-dee-crap. I know A LOT of people who hate me. And it's nothing new. I've been ridiculed multiple times for voicing my opinion. Now, unless you intend to make comments that are CALM and COOL, go away. Skyflight, you get a gold star for not acting like an infant. Thank you. Good-bye! <3

[Secure]

Abortion is not a WRONG thing in general. And yes, who would want to keep a baby from rape? If you couldn't afford abortion, and you couldn't afford the baby, you have no choice but to send it to an orphanage! Guys, I'm not saying anyone's wrong, but there are different situations in which some you have NO CHOICE but to do abortion.

Afterlife, I love ya', I really do, but you can't block people who are being the slightest bit mean out of your threads. They may not be your favorite person, but that's not the way to solve it.

Wildstar I don't want to close it either. I like debating too.

Lightningstrike/Spark/other people
You are right in some ways, but with abortion, there really is no right/wrong things. Like I said, there are different situations one could be in. In most ways abortion is NOT wrong at all. 'Course I agree the baby isn't even a baby yet, but like someone said, a baby is a huge thing. This is taking a way a whole child's life. If it is needed/destiny to get abortion, get it.

Sunclaw
Thank you for deleting your account. You had no business being in this thread. What you said was worth attacking.

Please people. Be nice. Don't "attack" people for their opinions. Read Darkstar's thread again.

[perceus500]

Secure. Thank you. I love you. Like, seriously. And it's Venomstar, I believe. *Band-Aid Moment*

[Sparrowfeather]

Mar 8, 2011 14:47:43 GMT -6 @perceus500 said:

Ahem. I have an announcement:
ZIP YOUR FREAKING LIPS!!!!

[/i][/u][/font][/size]
Seriously. It's in the rules; NO FLAMING!!! Now, I don't agree with anything you guys have said, nor do I have any religious point of view on any of this. The reason I wrote this whole thing was to do something. Why can't you idiots get a freaking life and leave. Me. Alone. I've seen some pretty gruesome things in my life. I've seen surgery up close and personal. I've witnessed rape, murder, and robbery. At the same time, as well. I've known people who have made several attempts on their own lives and the lives of others. I don't give a crap about your "opinions." And Wildstar, it's not my fault that I couldn't think of pros to it. I could think of one, but it was a con as well. So I didn't put it down. Now, abortion, great thing if you've been raped, or don't have the necessary funds to support a child. I don't expect you to agree with me (some of you just enjoy being douches to be douches). Actually, I prefer you to disagree with me. I love this chaos. I love it. I thrive off of it. I love arguments, and I love it when they get out of hand. I recommend not acting like two-year-olds fighting over a doll. Now, I don't want to hear any more on the subject AT ALL. Thank you. And if you think I'll take crap from anyone, staff or otherwise, you're wrong. I'm a passionate person when I can be, and a freaking lawyer when I need to be. Either way, we both lose. I lose because I get a warning. You guys lose because everyone who agrees with me--who dislikes it--has their opinion of you lowered. And even people who disagree with me have their opinion lowered. Especially staff. I CAN NOT stress this enough; be more mature. You're expected to deal with problems in a calm and cool manner. You don't like me? Ooooh. Big whoop-dee-crap. I know A LOT of people who hate me. And it's nothing new. I've been ridiculed multiple times for voicing my opinion. Now, unless you intend to make comments that are CALM and COOL, go away. Skyflight, you get a gold star for not acting like an infant. Thank you. Good-bye! <3[/quote]

Mar 8, 2011 14:47:43 GMT -6 @percceus500 said:

I've seen surgery up close and personal. I've witnessed rape, murder, and robbery.

Yeah, I'm sure. *cough*fakeandgay*cough*

And Wildstar, it's not my fault that I couldn't think of pros to it. I could think of one, but it was a con as well.

Then don't put all of the cons. Put one con for every pro. Can only think of one pro? Then leave out all of the cons.

Now, I don't want to hear any more on the subject AT ALL. Thank you. And if you think I'll take crap from anyone, staff or otherwise, you're wrong

No. You posted this in the general board no? At the bottom you even said 'So VWW, I bring it to you, Abortion = good or bad?


I want to debate about it. The only person, buddy, making a big deal of this, is YOU.